From Clinic to Campus: How Slowing Down Transformed One OD's Career Path | Dr. Deborah Wang

What does it take to leave a thriving clinical career — and find something even more aligned?

For Dr. Deborah Wang, it was a phone call that changed everything.

After graduating from SUNY Optometry in 2020, Deborah built a meaningful career at a busy Brooklyn ophthalmology practice. But when her mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 2022, Deborah's priorities — and eventually her career path — transformed entirely.

Now serving as Director of Career Development and CSTEP Project Director at SUNY Optometry, Deborah channels her passion for people, mentorship, and community into supporting the next generation of optometrists.

In this episode, we explore:

• Navigating early-career challenges as a first-hire in a busy ophthalmology practice
• How caring for a terminally ill parent reshaped her definition of work and life
• The pivot from clinical practice to academic career development
• Building career capital as a student
• Balancing ambition with burnout prevention: a framework for saying yes wisely

Deborah's core belief is simple but powerful: follow your why, stay open, and the universe will answer.

Whether you're a student figuring out your path or a clinician wondering what's next, this one's for you.

Connect with Deborah:
LinkedIn: Dr. Deborah Wang I SUNY Optometry Career Development

Transcript

Fred H. Cho 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of 20 Happy podcast. We're joined by Dr. Debra Wang, who has built a unique career, starting with a busy ODMD office in Brooklyn to now making an impact as the Director of Career Development at suny. Welcome, Debra.

Deborah Wang 0:16

Thank you so much Dr. Cho. I'm so excited to be here.

Fred H. Cho 0:20

Yeah, perfect. And of course, you and I connected on LinkedIn and so I know a bit about your story, but maybe to my co-host and for our audience, in your own words, if you can introduce yourself.

Deborah Wang 0:31

Of course. Hi everyone. My name is Dr. Debra Wang. I grew up in Oregon and I moved to New York for optometry school. I graduated from SUNY in 2020 in the midst of the pandemic, and then I started working at. ophthalmology practice in Sunset Park in Brooklyn for around three and a half years. And afterwards I pivoted to my current position at SUNY Optometry as the director of career development and C step project director. In the midst of all that, I've also been pretty involved in the associations in New York, from local societies to the current state association as well.

Fred H. Cho 1:15

Amazing and really excited to get into all that. But on the show, we like to kick things off with Monday Fuel, so you'll kind of catch on as you listen in. So r, us off.

Riyad Khamis 1:25

Yeah. Monday Fuel this week. Let's, let's see. So Olympics just finished Paralympics start tomorrow, which I actually worked with a Paralympic athlete who's representing Team Canada, sledge Hockey. So I'm actually pretty excited. I learned a little bit about Sledge Hockey when I was working with him. He was the youngest team Canada sledge hockey player ever actually. So yeah, I'm excited to kind of watch him and, and learn a little bit more about kind of the unique Paralympic sports events as well.

Fred H. Cho 1:52

And that's your first time being exposed to this, right?

Riyad Khamis 1:56

I didn't, I'd, I'd heard of it, but I don't think I'd ever watched. And there's like a big Canada USA rivalry in sledge hockey as well. And as as you guys know, can USA beat us both in the Men's and Women's Olympics. So we'll see if the,

Fred H. Cho 2:08

Yeah.

Riyad Khamis 2:08

the Paralympics, if Canada can come through. I know Deborah is team USA, where a little bit Team Canada here, so.

Deborah Wang 2:15

watch

Riyad Khamis 2:16

Okay.

Deborah Wang 2:16

so

Riyad Khamis 2:16

Okay, so you're impartial. You're impartial. Okay. How about yourself, Fred? Any Monday fuel this week?

Fred H. Cho 2:24

For me it's something called nine rounds. So it's called nine rounds. 'cause you got each round that's three minutes long and it's the first is like jumping ropes and then second is like pad work and you're like. Doing combinations with punching and I don't know, I could never get into gym. I know Ria, like you were really good with gym going consistently, even when we're students, but, I just couldn't do it. But then with kickboxing, like I just love it. So I, I just worked out today and I'm feeling so much better.

Riyad Khamis 2:54

Okay. It's like intense cardio. Oh, interesting. That sounds cool. Not to put you on the spot, but anything that's, it's fueled you this kind of week or last week.

Deborah Wang 3:04

So something that has fueled me is that I have a event coming up for VSPs Future Leaders Academy. So I was actually in the program last year for their inaugural cohort when they brought in young optometrists and kind of. Brought us together to network and also learn leadership skills as well. So I'm actually going to be attending their kickoff event in New York City as an alumni. So just being able to give back to a program that has given me so much last year is, I think always so exciting. And I think that also kinda. Goes into my fuel for my professional career

Riyad Khamis 3:49

Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, I would say like, it's nice that I, I, we've had this conversation too before as optometrists, sometimes we're pretty isolated in our lane and all of that stuff, so it's nice to be involved with all the school stuff as well and just being able to attend events, whether it's an alumni, but just the. The networking part of it, I'm sure is, is great to be around people. I'm sure it's something to look forward to as well and kind of jealous of that part of it. We don't get that.

Deborah Wang 4:15

Oh, I'm, I'm sure you guys have a lot of societies in Canada as well for events and networking as well.

Fred H. Cho 4:22

Yeah, not as many as us for sure. We're

Riyad Khamis 4:24

Yeah.

Fred H. Cho 4:25

about going to Academy. Are you going?

Riyad Khamis 4:27

I.

Deborah Wang 4:28

I was going to, my boss actually just brought up this question to me a few weeks ago and I was I'm getting married like

Riyad Khamis 4:36

Oh, congratulations.

Deborah Wang 4:38

and I'm like, I'm gonna be like kind of fried for that time, so I don't think I to make it down to California.

Fred H. Cho 4:46

that's a valid reason.

Riyad Khamis 4:47

Yeah, I think that that counts as a good reason. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that's Monday fuel planning a wedding, or that's Monday draining. There's a lot of planning. Okay. I know, I, I remember that part of it, so,

Deborah Wang 4:59

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I'm like, I think the fuel part for that is that we are bringing in, have you guys watched Crazy Rich Asians before?

Fred H. Cho 5:08

Yes,

Riyad Khamis 5:09

yes.

Deborah Wang 5:10

So one of the singers not Kiana Grannis, 'cause I cannot afford her, but she, one of the singers who does the. cover of Yellow by Coldplay. The song plays during the proposal scene

Riyad Khamis 5:24

I think I remember that. Yeah.

Deborah Wang 5:26

spoiler, but I think everyone can assume that's what's

Riyad Khamis 5:28

Yeah.

Deborah Wang 5:29

But so we're flying her in from

Riyad Khamis 5:32

Oh, amazing.

Deborah Wang 5:33

New York to sing 'cause I love that song and so we're so excited. I'm very excited for that

Riyad Khamis 5:39

Yeah, that sounds amazing. That sounds like it'll be so cool. Yeah. We'll have to have you on post wedding to let us know how it went.

Deborah Wang 5:47

No, of course. But yeah, we're,

Fred H. Cho 5:49

yeah.

Deborah Wang 5:50

We're doing it at a Chinese Mexican fusion restaurant, which is of funky to say, but

Riyad Khamis 5:56

Yeah, it sounds.

Deborah Wang 5:57

have flaming pecking ducks, so they take pecking ducks and they like light it on fire. So

Riyad Khamis 6:03

Oh wow.

Deborah Wang 6:03

a row of pecking ducks on fire for the wedding dinner.

Riyad Khamis 6:08

Okay. Well that sounds like a, that sounds like it'll be a lot of fun.

Fred H. Cho 6:12

Yeah. Yeah, we, we'd love to see you got a video, all this stuff, like the singing and all this stuff. That'd be

Riyad Khamis 6:16

Yeah, that'd be pretty cool to see.

Deborah Wang 6:18

will.

Fred H. Cho 6:18

Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. So right after graduation from suny, you joined a really busy ODMD office in Brooklyn, New York. seeing 40 patients a day, which is for Canadians, I don't know, it sounds really high, really fast.

Riyad Khamis 6:33

Yeah.

Fred H. Cho 6:33

What was the biggest challenge in that role and maybe also your favorite part?

Deborah Wang 6:39

Yeah, so I would say the challenge is I was their very first hired doctor. So when I first started practicing, it was just me and my boss, who was a corneal specialist. She was also, she also had just given birth like the month before I started. So a lot of times I. Take on the patient load, but because it was during COVD and it was only emergency visits, it, it was okay for that kind of dynamic. But I think just setting expectations and figuring out how we wanted the clinic to flow. Something simple. Like I didn't have a lunch break scheduled when I first started, and that was definitely difficult for me. But being able to figure that out and then working together for a. Way that kind of benefited both of us was really important, a challenge, but it did end up working and a lot of the policies that I wanted, I think, are still implemented to this day, even after I've left the practice. In terms of highlights, I think that is the flip side of being the first doctor that they hired. I was kind of there from the ground up, being there when the business was. Getting larger and large, larger. And just being able to build up their patient base as well, I think is that was really important to me and was also just a highlight of being there.

Fred H. Cho 8:00

I think the, the challenge aspect, how it's also, yes, it's difficult, but also it helped you grow it sounds like, in a lot of different ways. And think a lot of us can relate to that too. Because you mentioned you graduated in 2020 and you went right into this busy office. And the early years are very much about learning, isn't it? Like you're just like everything. You're just figuring it out. How does a billing work and the difficult cases referrals, right.

Deborah Wang 8:27

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I. Every single day, even towards the end of when I finished practicing, I was just learning every single day. There was always like some sort of case that was coming through usually on a Saturday when I was by myself and things are crazy.

Fred H. Cho 8:44

Of

Deborah Wang 8:44

That's when all the complex cases would come through, but I mean. I'm so grateful for that opportunity. I went right into practice. I didn't do a residency, so having that opportunity to have such a close relationship with my boss was very important to me. She was very, very understanding, very willing to teach as well, which I think not everyone gets that opportunity when they are in an ophthalmology practice, so I'm very grateful for her mentorship during that time.

Riyad Khamis 9:16

I'm sure you saw lots of probably really interesting corneal conditions where you had to really learn, and you've probably carried that over to, to just having more knowledge now. Yeah, it's what, and and I would think that probably the seeing a lot of patients can be challenging over time, like skipping the lunch and all of that stuff. We're a big fan of taking our hour lunches here. So yeah, it's, it can be, it can be hard to sustain that,

Deborah Wang 9:41

of course. Yeah. Yeah. And then I definitely agree, like the 40 patients did start weighing down on me towards. The end. But I mean, looking back now, I, I think it's just always easier to see the bright side of things

Riyad Khamis 9:57

Yeah, for sure. No, that's great.

Deborah Wang 9:59

the difficult

Riyad Khamis 10:00

Yeah,

Deborah Wang 10:01

aspects.

Riyad Khamis 10:02

for sure.

Fred H. Cho 10:02

Yeah. Yeah. I love that mindset. Now 90% of your patients you were seeing were Mandarin, and so you would have to conduct these exams in Mandarin as well.

Deborah Wang 10:11

Mm-hmm.

Fred H. Cho 10:12

a deliberate choice? Was it the area? Like how did that happen?

Deborah Wang 10:17

I didn't really go out searching specifically for, oh, I only want to take care of mostly Chinese speaking patients, but was given the opportunity because a. I had gone to a young optometrist event like the month before, and we all went golfing, and I was the only student there. And so one of the ods reached out to me the month after and was like, I have a friend who is looking for someone who speaks Chinese and to work at her practice. Do you, are you interested? And as I was thinking about the opportunity, like the experiences I could gain, I was very excited about pursuing it. So. As someone that grew up in Oregon, I know a lot of people are not familiar with Oregon. It's not really one of those states at all. But one of the main things about Oregon is we're not known for being very diverse. But when I was growing up. My parents did force me to go to Chinese school every single week. So that experience while difficult in the moment I'm very grateful that I was able to connect more with my heritage, my culture learn how to speak the language fluently. Read and write as well. And just being able to utilize all those skills and those experiences for my patients and having that capability to, to even do that was very important to me as I was thinking about the opportunity when I was given it.

Riyad Khamis 11:45

Interesting.

Fred H. Cho 11:46

and, and they'll stay with you as well, for sure. Right now you can do an exam fluently in Mandarin, and that's really, really valuable. I worked at a. Predominantly Korean speaking patients, private office for a while as well, for, for a number of years. I became more fluent because of that. So, yeah, exactly. Like you said, connecting with your heritage, but also just there are patients who, I'm sure you had this too, they just can't speak English. So they really, really need your help. And so there was that helping aspect that I really liked about my work as well. And now in 2024, so that's not too long ago, you made a big pivot leaving clinical practice to become the director of career development at suny. So what motivated you to make this big pivot?

Deborah Wang 12:38

Yeah, so I would say that my main reason for the pivot was because of my mom. My mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer in April of 2022. I remember the exact moment when my dad called me to give me the news. I was actually out of state, and so I had to fly home as soon as I saw my boss, I let them know what happened and that my decision was that I wanted to spend as much time with my family as possible. I obviously live in New York City. My parents live in the Chicago suburbs, and so going home is not. Something like I can just drive or take the train to home, like I have to go on the plane to get home. So I told my boss, I was like, my family is the most important thing to me and I want to be able to travel home as much as I can. And I'm so grateful that my boss and her husband, who is our practice manager, they were very, very understanding. They were like, whenever you wanna leave, for a few like days, weeks, just let us know. We'll rearrange the schedule for you. And I don't think e everyone can say that about their job, that their job would be willing to do that for them. So I'm so grateful I had that opportunity. So I would fly back home every month, like every couple of months, few months. And that experience allowed me to like. Go to Taiwan for a month. Go down to visit my future in-laws with my mom for the first time and. Around October of 2023 after a lot of treatments from like chemo immunotherapy, my mom decided to stop her, all treatments. So obviously at that time we knew she didn't have that long to live. So I quit my job I took the next couple of months flying back and forth every month. And then I moved permanently back to Chicago for the last few months of her life. So at that time I was a full-time, like 24 7 caretaker alongside my dad for my mom. after a few months it was. I was starting to feel a little bit burnt out by it. I'm obviously very grateful I had even the capability, like the financial ability to like not have to work and just be able to be home to take care of my mom but I was getting a little bit burnt out from it. It's hard being an end of life caretaker and I'm. I think anyone that's able to do it is very strong. And so at that time I was thinking like I kind of wanna take a break from seeing patients when I get back to New York. So I messaged the last director of career development. At that time, I'm Dr. Qui Wynn, I was telling him what was going on kind of what I wanted, which was maybe seeing a nonclinical career path. And I was like, do you know any opportunities? And he was like, yeah, you know I'm actually gonna leave my job in a week. Are you interested in this position? And I was like, yeah, sure, let's do this. And so I messaged my current boss now and I told him my intentions of applying. I went through a couple of interviews. They were also very also allowed me to do like in-person interviews virtually after I told them what was going on got the job in a few weeks. And here we are. At suny, it's been exactly two years since yesterday, so

Riyad Khamis 16:20

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, that's, that's really yeah. One thing that I took away from that was just like. Going through such a tough time is just the positivity that you still look back at on and, and just like how it, you still kind of look fondly upon, as you said, your previous boss and all of that stuff for, for allowing you, which is like actually like very inspiring as well. So that, that's really great to hear also.

Deborah Wang 16:46

Yeah, I mean. I, I think that's something that, going through all of these events has really taught me that at the end of the day, we're all just humans trying to live our lives. And no one's really out to get anyone. And so I think everyone comes from good intentions and it's always good to see the beauty of people

Riyad Khamis 17:08

Yeah, and, and I think that it also shows that even though sometimes work is important, there's obviously there's more important things in life. And it allowed kind of, at least from what I got from what you were saying, allowed you to kind of refigure out where you wanna go with your life and your career

Fred H. Cho 17:25

and I think a theme that I see too, and when people make big pivots, a lot of the times it's when people are forced to slow down and. or

Riyad Khamis 17:34

Yeah.

Fred H. Cho 17:35

you know what I mean? Ria, like we hear that a lot. So I think sometimes if we're so busy and almost like on an autopilot mode and you're just running through the same day over and over and over again, it's very easy to lose sight of like the big questions. How am I really doing? Is my current career trajectory still where I want to continue down on? Like I think these are things that. Things that you can only really see when you slow down. And it sounds like that's also what happened in your journey as well. Yeah.

Deborah Wang 18:05

A hundred percent.

Riyad Khamis 18:06

All right, well let's dive into now your work currently. So I know we had mentioned Cstep and also that kind of part of your. Work is a career development, is to work with students from under-resourced backgrounds and who are trying to break into optometry. So first just tell us a little bit about that and why is that work important or inspiring for you?

Deborah Wang 18:28

So Csep is a v very special program in the New York. State. So it's a New York state funded program through our Department of Education, and it is for economically disadvantaged students, typically undergrads, but also some graduates as well, to explore a professional field. So obviously for us it is optometry. So we do everything from. We host two internships a year. So one in winter, one in spring. They're all the same, but it's just different times so we can bring more people in. And we also have a summer academic program as well. The internship is hands-on two weeks. We let students shadow in our university eye center at suny, but also in an outside practice as well. They get to learn from faculty. Do a group research project at the end as well. our summer academic program, it's more of a the academic side of optometry, so we have mostly first year faculty members who come and teach the students weekly for eight weeks. They take a final exam, and if they pass that final exam. They can bring their transcript to their registrar and possibly get undergraduate credit for their work in this course. And for me, being able to work in Cstep in an initiative such as this, I think is very important. Diversity and having healthcare providers from all facets of life, I think is so important to provide compassionate and understanding providers for. So I mean, I think we also discussed it with languages and stuff. Having a doctor that speaks your language is a very important way that we're able to connect directly with our patients as well.

Riyad Khamis 20:17

I think that's super important. Yeah. Diversity and eye care I think is super important. We've had a few guests that kind of have chatted about being able to see patients in different populations, and especially having people come from diverse backgrounds, I think. Yeah, it creates well-rounded clinicians as well, which is, which is definitely the goal. I, I think that just because it is a little bit of a non-traditional optometry route, I'd love to hear a little bit more about career development. Like, so running a career development center, i'm assuming it's kind of a lot of helping others figure out what they want from their work life, and I would love to first hear a little bit about that. And then the second part is how has that changed how you think about your definition of work? Happiness as well.

Deborah Wang 20:58

So for us with Career Development Center, we first and foremost, we do a lot of events for our students. This year I've been bringing a lot of doctors that are in different modalities to the students to chat with them just to kind of see what is out there that it's not. Private practice is very important. Hospital base is very important, but those aren't the only pathways, and there's so many different opportunities that future doctors have, and so I love being able to bring that in and just kind of letting students kind of. Get to feel what they wanna be in the

Riyad Khamis 21:34

For sure.

Deborah Wang 21:34

I do a newsletter every month for them, and I try to highlight a doctor every month. So it's been alumni mostly, but we have been having some. Doctors in the community who I feel like also have very non-traditional pathways. And I think it's just a great way to learn about what is out there, or even if it's not non-traditional, kind of how they got there, how they came about that decision to maybe find a special modality or a specialty. And I, I think. kind of learning about that really helps the students. In addition, I'm also connecting with alumni as well. I'm trying to increase like job connections, so we have a job portal that's always been there, but maybe a more personal touch about any doctors I know that are hiring any doctors I know that are looking and being able to connect them directly. I think that personal touch is a little bit. More difficult to find in today's technological era where a lot of it is just maybe throwing a resume on Indeed and just having that initial connection I think is, makes it a lot easier to jump into possibly getting into a future role as well.

Fred H. Cho 22:53

That's a topic that I'm also really interested in. So not just that there's only one path to practicing optometry. There's other modalities and even a whole host of nonclinical pathways. So you're obviously a great example of that. But you can be a consultant, you can be an in advocacy education. Like, there's so many different things you can do.

Deborah Wang 23:15

Yeah.

Fred H. Cho 23:15

So I love the kind of work that you're doing. I think it's a very needed one for the young ods that are up and coming and yeah, we're actually, red and I are talking to Waterloo students in Canada around these topics of career progression. And I really like, I really enjoy connecting with students actually.

Deborah Wang 23:36

Yeah, I mean they're, they're like at the very beginning

Riyad Khamis 23:39

Full.

Deborah Wang 23:39

career and it's so exciting to see what they're going to do. Like even in the first couple of years there's so many doctors that are doing amazing things.

Riyad Khamis 23:49

Yeah.

Fred H. Cho 23:49

Yeah, you're right. Actually, I wanna say thanks for sending me that book.

Deborah Wang 23:53

Oh yeah, of course.

Fred H. Cho 23:54

sent me this book that was written by, I believe, the previous director at suny

Deborah Wang 24:00

Yes, Dr. Wynn. And then Dr. Al, who is our current VP of student Affairs.

Fred H. Cho 24:07

Okay. Yeah. So the, I read the book, it was really good, and I would say one key idea that I took away is that career development happens like. When you're a student in optometry school, which is something that I wish I was told as well when I was in school. 'cause for me it was all about just like, okay, get the grades, learn the skills, and then real life starts after graduation. So yeah, I really enjoyed the book, so thanks for sending me sending that.

Deborah Wang 24:34

Course. Yeah. So one of the main things that was talked about in the book is developing your career capital. So what are you utilizing in as a student to help you push forward your job once you graduate? So one of the big things I tell my students is the importance of networking, like I was talking about, that was how I got my first job, was by going to a golf game that no other, yeah.

Riyad Khamis 24:57

you a golfer? I was gonna

Deborah Wang 24:59

I have not. I like I said, I don't watch sports because I don't like sports and I do not play any sports. But I mean, it was free tickets. As a broke graduate student in New York City, I will take any

Riyad Khamis 25:13

Right.

Deborah Wang 25:14

for an event. And so I mean, it was really fun. I mean, everyone made fun of me, but who cares? It was just for like a few hours, but yeah.

Riyad Khamis 25:25

Honestly, I think that, just on a side note, I'm a golfer and golfing is such a good networking. Like it is an area where most people are there. Especially there's like charity tournaments and stuff. Most people are there. Just have fun and it is a really good like networking spot as well, I think.

Fred H. Cho 25:41

And it's really hard. such a difficult sport.

Riyad Khamis 25:44

it is. It helps. Smart. Yeah, that's true.

Deborah Wang 25:47

I mean, my only golf is top golf, so.

Riyad Khamis 25:50

Yeah, we don't have that in Canada, which I'm jealous of. No, not yet. It's my favorite thing to do when I'm there. But in the US.

Fred H. Cho 25:59

Okay. All right, so switching the gear a little bit here. I know you're also involved in a leadership position for New York Optometry Association, so tell us a little bit about your experience with that and some things that you learned. Your favorite parts. Yeah. How's it.

Deborah Wang 26:15

So I've been very lucky to be able to be involved in the New York state and city optometric Association since. I mean, just one year out of school. So for our Ocon Society, which is our New York City local Optometric society, I was past president. I was also on the board of directors, and I'm currently the secretary for them. So I've been. Really able to help develop like programs for our members and non-members as well. Additionally, with the New York State Optometric Association for the last two years I've been managing our CE Pass program. CEPA was developed during the height of the pandemic to bring monthly virtual continuing education to members and now members. So it's been. A lot of fun bringing in new speakers on different topics. So anytime I hear a speaker that I'm like, wow, I've like learned so much from that continuing education talk, I always just like contact them right away and I'm like, can you come and like speak to our members? I think this would be such a great opportunity. And just seeing the program grow more and more every month has been amazing. I'm the co-chair of our New York City, long Island region of what's called our Emerging Professionals Subcommittee. So we bring in emerging optometrists, so 10 years or less of practice. And we do social events mostly in Manhattan 'cause that's usually the easiest place for everyone to get together. And it's just a community for members, non-members, emerging professionals to get together and kind of. Be together, chat, just like hang out and stuff. And finally, with the state, I'm also the metropolitan regional trustee, so I represent optometrists in the five boroughs and also Long Island as like a liaison between them and our executive board of New York State Optometric Association. So it's been wonderful being able to give back to the community in that way, like. Basically since I graduated from optometry school,

Fred H. Cho 28:24

Yeah, I'm, I'm really impressed that everything that you've already achieved. All these programs that you've been involved with,

Deborah Wang 28:30

thank.

Fred H. Cho 28:31

impact beyond the exam room. So I think that's really cool. And also RI think we can get into that under tenure, out of practice cl I think so. graduation. Yeah.

Riyad Khamis 28:42

in there. Maybe just like

Fred H. Cho 28:45

Remember for like couple months, you know?

Riyad Khamis 28:47

Yeah. But no, that sounds great and I could see the passion and I'm

Fred H. Cho 28:51

yeah.

Riyad Khamis 28:51

so much from, I, I think just even having this podcast, I know we learn a lot from like these great optometrists and, and people coming on, so I'm sure you get to that experience too, is just like get to soak in a lot of need information and really kind of learn from a lot of people,

Fred H. Cho 29:06

And just piggybacking off of that, like, so you are wearing a lot of hats, right? You're a clinician leader, program director. Like is there passion that connects everything or do you see it as more distinct career chapters?

Deborah Wang 29:22

Yeah, I mean this answer is probably gonna be super cliche, but I kind of see them all coming together as just me. Loving to help other people, as cliche as that is. But I mean, even growing up when I was younger, in middle school, high school, I was like volunteering at summer camps. I worked in the local library from, for all of high school, and I have literally worked every single role a volunteer library worker can, apart from being a librarian and but I mean, even growing up I wanted to be a teacher, an administrative professional, and then. An optometrist as well, and I just feel like. I have had such luck in being able to bring all of that together into not only my association work, but also my current job with working with students undergraduate current students, and also alumni and. I, I think that has been something I've really derived my happiness from is that I have kind of learned more about myself even after graduating from optometry school, learning what I like, which is organizing management and being able to bring that into the profession of what I got my doctoral degree in. So it's, it's been a great experience.

Fred H. Cho 30:38

I think whenever I hear answers like that, it makes me smile. 'cause I can, I resonate with like the passion that you have. It's very infectious. So that's really amazing. And. Now optometry has a reputation for being a stable, predictable profession in many ways, right? Private practice, good income, set hours, clearly built something very different. what would you say to students who also want to pursue unconventional Path like yours?

Deborah Wang 31:09

So my main. Advice would be just to kind of try to be open to all opportunities that might come in for you and also obviously be within your bandwidth as well. You don't wanna, as important as saying yes to all of these opportunities are, you also don't wanna burn yourself out 'cause that's just gonna make you not enjoy them at all. But also because someone is going on an. Conventional path. Just remember that the pathway is never going to be a hundred percent smooth. There's always going to be challenges. You're gonna struggle and most likely will fail at one time. And that's like totally okay. That's what life is about. It's kind of the growth and the exploration of kind of all the opportunities that you're given in life.

Fred H. Cho 31:57

So if you want to be like, open to all these opportunities, but also you don't wanna burn yourself out, you mentioned how, how would you distinguish the two? How would you manage that?

Deborah Wang 32:08

I think this is, it's definitely more difficult when you're a little bit earlier in your career when you don't really know yourself. But I think kind of a theme that we talked about earlier is the importance of slowing down and kind of thinking about it more so. After every experience or opportunity you're saying yes to kind of stop, pause, and reflect and just see, am I still enjoying this? Is this something I still want to proceed with? And if things are getting a little bit overwhelming, it is okay to say no to the next experience. But once you start feeling like you're ready to take on more, then kind of giving it out to the universe, being like, this is something I wanna do. And I believe that once you put stuff out into the universe that it will, it will answer you, maybe not right away, but in the future For sure.

Riyad Khamis 33:10

A few things stood out to me about that answer is one is yeah, saying opportunities. You never know, right? You never know what comes knocking on you. And even us, like I would say right now where we are, we may think we know where we're gonna be in two, three years, but

Fred H. Cho 33:23

Yeah.

Riyad Khamis 33:23

an opportunity comes up and it may pivot. So I, and I think that's the beauty of. Of kind of our profession as well. You don't know exactly where you may go with it, but if you, as you said, like if you follow your passions, then sometimes I think that helps as well is it helps, prevents the burnout. 'cause you're chasing something, as you said, even with your, with kind of taking the, the step in your career. You're doing something you're really passionate about, and it may be, there may be times where you have to put in more work than than normal, but it's because you're interested and passionate about it. And, and I think that's, that's kind of the key of, of that, which, but I, but I really, and I, and I really enjoy the positivity. I'm a very positive person and, and I

Fred H. Cho 34:01

Yep.

Riyad Khamis 34:02

kind of where're on the same level a little bit, which is nice.

Deborah Wang 34:05

Yeah.

Fred H. Cho 34:06

Probably. You're probably the most positive person I know. Viya like,

Riyad Khamis 34:09

No, I know, but Deborah's Deborah's right there actually.

Deborah Wang 34:12

Oh,

Riyad Khamis 34:12

I think she, she might be exceeding that positivity right now.

Deborah Wang 34:16

PEs.

Riyad Khamis 34:17

Oh really? Okay. I'm getting a positive vibe from you right now. Yeah, that's, that's what we need. Okay. Now we're just gonna finish off with some reflection type of questions. So at this stage in your career, I know it's still like, hopefully a long career, just like all of us there, but what does work happiness mean to you right now at your stage?

Deborah Wang 34:37

Me and my boss actually did a survey for optometrists across the country about what workplace happiness is, and we found some interesting points about what is really. Creating workplace happiness, which I really resonated with. Some of the points I think that I've utilized is just finding that passion, finding that why. So, like I was saying, I love organizing and management and just being able to bring that into my work is very important and it does lead to happiness. Additionally, community was also something that a lot of people talked about and that is important for me as well, like where you're doing your job. 'cause you're there for like eight hours a day. You wanna make sure you like your colleagues. And so being able to surround yourself with positive people that are. Helping you grow, I think is also important and also leads to happiness as well. 'cause you're enjoying what you're doing and also feeling like you're growing, which is again adding to your why and your future aspirations as well.

Fred H. Cho 35:42

I love that answer. I think it's combining, different aspects of wellbeing pillars. 'cause when we think about work happiness, it's. One, all of the main pillars of wellbeing, right? But it's not all of it. And so it makes sense then that investing in your relationships with your coworkers, that would make your work happiness better. So yeah, I love the how you brought up the community aspect as well as incorporating passion into the job.

Riyad Khamis 36:10

We talked a little bit about students and I know as Fred said that we are doing a lecture as well to fourth year students. And we, so one thing we chatted about is like in your fourth year when you're sitting in the chair, kind of what were we thinking our career would be like, or where has it changed? So for you, if you could go back or sit down with that version of yourself that just finished optometry school at SUNY in 2020, kind of the pandemic limit coming up and all this stuff going on. What's one piece of advice you would've given your fourth year self?

Deborah Wang 36:40

So I think this, like one piece of advice would be like a two-parter. So the first one kind of goes into what we've talked about before. Not being afraid to say yes to opportunities that come up. But also the second part is, I mean, kind of my life story has been a roller coaster the last few years. So just knowing, especially as someone like me who is very type A, wants everything planned to the minute that just life is like never going to go the way you expect it to. And I guess just. Enjoy it. 'cause that's kind of the fun part of life, even though it is a rollercoaster, but, and it's scary, but it's still enjoyable. Like you get to look back and look at how much you've grown and what you've actually done in even just like the past year or two as well.

Fred H. Cho 37:27

I can't believe somebody called you pessimistic. You're very optimistic actually. So

Riyad Khamis 37:33

But no,

Fred H. Cho 37:33

yeah.

Riyad Khamis 37:33

like sitting down and those learning experiences are really important and I think that I really do think just hopefully there's a lot of students that listen to this episode because I think that they would get a ton from you. SUNY is lucky and just in terms of what you're doing with the students there. I'm sure they're getting a ton out of it and they should clone you and put you in every optometry school. I think that would be really beneficial. Right.

Fred H. Cho 37:54

Yeah. Yeah.

Riyad Khamis 37:56

Okay, perfect. Well, I think that was, that was great. I think we got a lot of good advice and some good tips there as well. And I, and I think just in general, just tips on how to keep your job fresh and it's good. Thank you for sharing all your stories there with us as well. We'd definitely love to dive in a little more after post wedding to hear about kind of

Fred H. Cho 38:15

Yeah, we gotta hear about that.

Deborah Wang 38:16

Yeah.

Riyad Khamis 38:17

but yeah, and we'd love to have you on again at some point. Yeah.